SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
A narrow window might be opening for a sustainable ceasefire in Gaza. Hamas leaders tell NPR the group is willing to lay down its arms, but with conditions. It is a major shift for the armed Palestinian group after two years of war, and it comes at a delicate moment in the ceasefire that President Trump had brokered. NPR international correspondent Aya Batrawy joins us from Qatar, where she met with two senior Hamas leaders to discuss what they are willing to concede. Hey there.
AYA BATRAWY, BYLINE: Hi.
DETROW: So Israel's prime minister says the next phase of the ceasefire is about the disarmament of Hamas. What did the group's senior leaders tell you about that?
BATRAWY: Well, Scott, I think it's important for us to say that Hamas is a group that sees itself as a political, ideologically Islamist resistance movement. And its leadership maintains that Palestinians, under international law, have a right to bear arms so long as there's an Israeli occupation and no Palestinian state. And while they continue to insist this is their right, we're now hearing a shift, and that is due to pressure from Israel's continued occupation of Gaza and from regional countries the group depends on. Now, Bassem Naim, a member of Hamas' political leadership based in Qatar, told NPR the group is willing not to use its weapons for five, seven or even 10 years.
BASSEM NAIM: During this time, we are ready to store it, to lay it down, with Palestinian guarantees, with regional guarantees, international guarantees, not to use it as long as we are not attacked. Because the second question is always, OK, Palestinians have to be disarmed. What about the other side?
BATRAWY: And on that other side, he also says there has to be a political track - negotiations that end with an independent Palestinian state. But the creation of a Palestinian state is something this Israeli government insists will not happen. And crucially, Scott, talks on all of this haven't even begun. Mediators say they're waiting on the Trump administration to kick-start phase two negotiations still.
DETROW: So how would this all happen? And what does the ceasefire plan that both sides agreed to back in October - what does that say about how to do this?
BATRAWY: It really doesn't say much. It's a vague plan that both sides agreed to, but it does state that Hamas will decommission its weapons, but it doesn't say how or in what order. And the Trump plan also calls for something else, an International Stabilization Force, or ISF, to be deployed to Gaza. Now, the Trump administration wants the ISF on the ground in Gaza by early next year. The U.S. even secured a U.N. mandate for that already.
Now we've heard Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia and Pakistan as possible countries that could join. But none have yet committed because they want to know exactly what their troops would be doing in Gaza. Would they be in charge of storing Hamas' weapons, destroying tunnels? You know, these countries are not going to send their soldiers there to fight Hamas. They want this to be a peacekeeping force that's welcomed on the ground. And Hamas says it supports the deployment of the ISF under certain conditions. Here's Naim again.
NAIM: We are welcoming the ISF as a peacekeeping force near the borders to separate between the parties. But all Palestinians are against any mandate which authorize these forces to intervene inside the cities in any direct duties against the Palestinian will.
BATRAWY: So he's saying they agree on the ISF acting as a buffer between Israel and Hamas to monitor the ceasefire, but not in population centers.
DETROW: Last question - big picture - you have this interview with Hamas leaders after two years of war. This is a war that began with the group's deadly attack on Israel on October 7. And two years later, Gaza is in ruins. Tens of thousands of people have been killed in Israeli airstrikes. How are they viewing this military campaign?
BATRAWY: Yes. Gaza has become unlivable. People are wounded, living in tents. Winter is coming. Families are still hungry. Hospitals are decimated, and the group has lost a lot of popularity in Gaza because of this. But they say the world witnessed these Israeli attacks in Gaza and that it turned public opinion against Israel globally and in the U.S. And they call this a strategic, irreversible win despite the very high cost.
DETROW: That is NPR's Aya Batrawy in Doha, Qatar. Thank you so much.
BATRAWY: Thanks, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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