SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
The top immediate effect of the U.S. and Israel's military strikes on Iran that began this weekend, the death of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Khamenei was Iran's supreme leader for nearly 40 years. He presided over a government that repeatedly met peaceful protesters with deadly force and funded militia groups throughout Middle East. But in addition to being the center of Iran's regime, Khamenei was also one of the most influential Shia clerics in the world, holding religious authority that reached far beyond Iran's borders. To help us understand that religious role and why it matters in this moment, we are joined now by Vali Nasr, professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and an expert on Shia Islam. Welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
VALI NASR: Thank you. Good to be back.
DETROW: What's the best way to understand the ayatollah's standing in/outside Iran as a religious figure?
NASR: Well, he was not respected purely on his scholarship. He, in fact, was not of the most eminent level in terms of Shia scholarship. But because he was the supreme leader of Iran and the guardian of the Iranian revolution and the Islamic Republic, that conferred on him a status of the leader - of leadership in the Shia world as a whole. And that's where from his legitimacy and standing came.
DETROW: And I just laid out a little bit of his actions as a political figure and also the way that he's framed throughout the West - violence against political opponents and protesters within Iran, overseeing a repressive regime, funding direct and indirect attacks against Israel and other countries. What's the best way to frame and think about how people who saw him as a religious figure, religious leader squared all of those actions and positions?
NASR: Well, they saw him as the guardian of the Islamic revolution, which for the Shia faithful and his supporters was a divine intervention in human history. So it was his obligation to protect it. And his actions against domestic dissidents or enforcing religious laws or limiting political activity in Iran was understood in terms of defending the revolution. Outside of Iran, he was seen as a leader of resistance against America, Israel and their allies, standing up for justice, for the downtrodden, for the underdog. And so they did not - his followers did not share the vision that he was disseminating terrorism and discord, but rather that he was standing up to Israel and U.S. policies in the region.
DETROW: Is it known yet who will step into this vacuum that this creates?
NASR: There are candidates and names, but it's not known. But whoever steps into his shoes, it will take him a long time to consolidate power domestically in Iran or to be recognized regionally at the level of leadership that Khamenei was. After all, he was - he headed Iran and had this position for 36 years, and that's a very long time. And a newcomer will not rise to that level very quickly.
DETROW: Is there one or two things that, looking back over the decades, Khamenei shaped and really had an impact on when it comes to Shia Muslims around the world, or is it what you said before, kind of this image as the person standing up to the West?
NASR: Well, his mark is not on religious scholarship among the Shia. In fact...
DETROW: Yeah.
NASR: ...The most eminent Shia scholar resides in Iraq, Ayatollah Sistani. And even in Iran, there are more eminent Shia leaders than him. But in shaping the Islamic Republic's foreign policy and particularly, organizing the idea of resistance across the region as a mantra for the Shia in the region - groups like Hezbollah, Iraqi militias, etc. - that is his most clear legacy.
DETROW: We've got about 30 seconds left. I'm curious what your biggest questions are about what comes next.
NASR: Well, largely, is that the passing of Khamenei opens a whole new chapter for the Islamic Republic, not just in terms of who succeeds him, but what kind of pathways are open for the future leadership of Iran to take that he would not allow while he was alive.
DETROW: That is Iran scholar Vali Nasr, a professor at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. Thank you so much.
NASR: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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